On Summoning

[menegil]

I very much believe the current summoning system is a thing of rather appalling counter-intuitiveness that ruins immersion. Random summoning completely breaks the way Summon Creature spells are supposed to function according to the rulesets.

However, it would be a true shame to waste all the work performed upon the summoning system of the server. As such, I propose a simple improvement, in essence, that would greatly aid players.

I speak of the ability to choose the summons you may call upon.

Via a menu option, folk capable of summoning could choose what type of creatures to summon, giving back mages and others final and true control over what they call upon, as truly befits the functionality of the spells. Moreover, I would propose a change in the Death Domain - given that Kelemvorites would never summon undead, and he is the main deity of Death (not to mention that finding a proper explanation towards their summons looking a lot like undead poses a great hindrance toward grouping with anyone other than evils), it only makes sense that there should be, at least, an exceptional tree of summons taylored for them. A possible option would be a tree of summonings related to celestial creatures - from lantern archons to solars, passing even by the Inevitables, I do believe such a tree would greatly enhance immersion not just for Kelemvorites (I admit to being biased ), but to all clerics of all faiths, who would be calling upon outsiders rather than random monster creatures to begin with, servants of their deity.

In summary; Outsider trees of summonable creatures for clerics based on alignment (Celestials/Guardinals/Eladrin for Good, Inevitables for Neutral, Devils/Demons for Evil) with special summons for Planar Binding spells, and the option of selecting which creature to call upon, if there are multiple options in one given spell. These would improve the summoning system greatly, improving immersion and playability.

ADDENDUM: ANother option; rather than a simple menu with all options, make options unlockable via the purchase of tokens at select places. Want to summon a nymph? You gotta go find a druid who'll teach you how, in the Forests! Want to summon a celestial? Talk to a priest of Ilmater! Inevitable? Why, Oghma is a good choice! And so on and so forth.

[Micteu]

Jun 16, 2010 6:54:23 GMT -5 @menegil said:

In summary; Outsider trees of summonable creatures for clerics based on alignment (Celestials/Guardinals/Eladrin for Good, Inevitables for Neutral, Devils/Demons for Evil) with special summons for Planar Binding spells, and the option of selecting which creature to call upon, if there are multiple options in one given spell. These would improve the summoning system greatly, improving immersion and playability.

ADDENDUM: ANother option; rather than a simple menu with all options, make options unlockable via the purchase of tokens at select places. Want to summon a nymph? You gotta go find a druid who'll teach you how, in the Forests! Want to summon a celestial? Talk to a priest of Ilmater! Inevitable? Why, Oghma is a good choice! And so on and so forth.

Mermut has a system like this set up on her Tales and Adventures module. Players can buy a summoning book that, through a conversation upon activation, lets them choose which critter is summoned of each type. Also, like in the 3.5 PHB, these spells can be modified to summon two monsters of the next lower level spell, four of the ones two levels below, etc. Maybe something similar can be done here?

[kalbaern]

Actually, our summons were inspired by 2E and prior sources where your summons varied by the terrain/climatic region you were travelling in. So woodland creatures in a deep forest and desert creatures in an endless sandy waste.

Since the bulk of our PW is near wilderness plains, hills and forests, we chose creatures we thought representative. The random idea was also inspired by older sources where there was often 2 or more possibilities in each terrain/climatic region.

Random summoned critters along with many other features of our PW are also meant to promote RP and keep things "fresh". The emotes and RP that follow a PCs first summoning of a dire skunk are often precious.

Other than some ongoing tweaks to the creatures for balancing, there's likely not going to be a change in the summonings in most areas of the PW. Sometime later, I would like to add different creatures for when a summoning is cast underground, in snowy areas, in steamy jungles or hot dry deserts, but all that will come later if at all.

NWN as a game is based on the 3E D&D materials and as such we often follow those rulesets because it's usually easier to incorporate them into what Bioware prebuilt. That doesn't mean we don't also follow 3.5E rules/sources or that we discard anything prior to 3E. We blend what we like and discard what we don't to create our own unique world here. The various DMGs from Basic thru 4E all repeat the same thing. That the various rules/sources/whatnot are for inspiration and final arbitration is left to each world's creator. (in this case ... creators ... plural)

AD&D and 2E both focused on the small details, especially regarding the Forgotten Realms setting as a whole. In 3E and later versions, much was lost or condensed into single hardcover books. Here at "The Savage Frontier and Surrounds", we often revisit the older sources which paint a more detailed picture of Faerun and specifically the areas our PW represents.

As far as immersion goes, I preferred older versions of PnP where a summoned creature didn't instantly appear. It had to travel from where it was to your location first. After all .. the spells were called "summon creature" and not "teleport fodder to me". Incorporating a delay like that here would've turned many folk off though. Additionally, crashing or relogging would reek havoc on such a system.

Aside from often using "older" D&D sources for our inspiration, "we" don't want to be just like "everyone else". The Savage Frontier and Surrounds is meant to be a unique setting inspired by a conglomeration of various and numerous Forgotten Realms sources that span a few decades and unlike PnP has a game engine that allows folk to play whenever they wish, alone or with others. This is why we've a forum and post our "rules variants".

As far as the Kelemvorites go ... I agree that most hate the death domain summons for them. When I've a chance, I'll rewrite that line of code from "if they have the death domain they summon these:" to "if they have the death domain and do not follow Kelemvor they summon these:" and let Kelemvorites summon what most others get randomly instead.

[menegil]

Aside from often using "older" D&D sources for our inspiration, "we" don't want to be just like "everyone else".

Not like everyone else, are you kidding me?

You say these things, yet this is the single server where Forgotten Realms lore is respected the most. We already are different than everyone else, by actually being faithful to the setting we play in.

My personal golden rule, and the one thing I appreciate the most in any RP server, is consistency. If it is consistent with the lore and the estabilished guidelines, it's perfect and should be encouraged. When it isn't, it should be corrected.

As for the older versions, I'm a grumpy young fart. The old ways seem rather silly. Summoning spells back then sound more like dog whistles than, well, magic <.< give me 3E rules any day. *Nods wisely.*

[kalbaern]

Jun 17, 2010 12:49:39 GMT -5 @menegil said:

Aside from often using "older" D&D sources for our inspiration, "we" don't want to be just like "everyone else".

Not like everyone else, are you kidding me?

You say these things, yet this is the single server where Forgotten Realms lore is respected the most. We already are different than everyone else, by actually being faithful to the setting we play in.

My personal golden rule, and the one thing I appreciate the most in any RP server, is consistency. If it is consistent with the lore and the estabilished guidelines, it's perfect and should be encouraged. When it isn't, it should be corrected.

As for the older versions, I'm a grumpy young fart. The old ways seem rather silly. Summoning spells back then sound more like dog whistles than, well, magic <.< give me 3E rules any day. *Nods wisely.*

All I can say is .... I'm old

I remember when "elf" was not just a race ... it was also a class

[menegil]

My dear God, the travesty.

[Micteu]

Already setting yourself up to be Lawful Grumpy, are you, Ernil?

[menegil]

Oh yes, I am a raging supporter of the "FOLLOW THE LORE OR DIE" doctrine. The moderate raging kind, but still.

Same principle as historians. Be rigorous, or be inaccurate and senseless.

[DavrosMandrake]

Jun 17, 2010 13:42:02 GMT -5 kalbaern said:

All I can say is .... I'm old

I remember when "elf" was not just a race ... it was also a class

*sigh* Oh the glory days...life was much simpler then

[kalbaern]

With recent updates, folks can specify which creature they will summon in some cases. As time allows, this feature will expand.