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Post by EndOfTheLine on Apr 11, 2015 9:15:30 GMT -5
What are folks thoughts on changing how the barbarian rage abilities work?
The suggestion would be to: Change Barbarian Rage to +2 damage / +2 attack instead of +4 strength. Change Greater Rage to +3 damage / +2 attack instead of +6 strength. Change Mighty Rage to +4 damage / +2 attack instead of +8 strength.
This way barbarians would be able to aim for strength based items without worrying so much about the +12 cap which they can otherwise so easily reach with their rages.
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Post by kalbaern on Apr 12, 2015 23:17:08 GMT -5
What are folks thoughts on changing how the barbarian rage abilities work? The suggestion would be to: Change Barbarian Rage to +2 damage instead of +4 strength. Change Greater Rage to +3 damage instead of +6 strength. Change Mighty Rage to +4 damage instead of +8 strength. This way barbarians would be able to aim for strength based items without worrying so much about the +12 cap which they can otherwise so easily reach with their rages. Anyone else have any input on this before I begin my pondering process?
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Post by Snubletraad on Apr 13, 2015 10:34:45 GMT -5
Yes, I do.
The +2/+3/+4 damage would also have to include a +2/+3/+4 attack bonus to simulate the +4/+6/+8 strength properly.
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Post by Snubletraad on Apr 13, 2015 12:36:05 GMT -5
And my opinion would be that I think it's a pretty great suggestion that also makes sense.
Would make barbarians that much more feared as melee warriors. As they should be.
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Post by kalbaern on Apr 16, 2015 11:08:18 GMT -5
Well, after looking over the scripts for these feats, its doable. Since the CON bonus granted also suffers from stacking limits I should change that to raw bonus HP per barabarian level as well.
Change Barbarian Rage to +2 damage/+2 attack instead/+2 HP per level. Change Greater Rage to +3 damage/+3 attack instead/+3 HP per level. Change Mighty Rage to +4 damage/+4 attack instead/+4 HP per level.
No ETA on changes and the description changes seen IG would have to wait until the next time we do a hak update (sometime in June most likely). Gimme a week to test the changes and ensure it doesn't open up any unforeseen exploits.
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Post by Snubletraad on Apr 16, 2015 12:08:26 GMT -5
Yeah, like making sure the +2 attack bonus doesn't allow the Barb to bypass DR.
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Post by EndOfTheLine on Apr 16, 2015 12:36:44 GMT -5
Cool. If you wanted to mimic the con boost as well then you could put in the temporary fortitude bonus you'd normally get.
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shroud
Spearman
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Post by shroud on Apr 16, 2015 15:24:48 GMT -5
Well, after looking over the scripts for these feats, its doable. Since the CON bonus granted also suffers from stacking limits I should change that to raw bonus HP per barabarian level as well. Change Barbarian Rage to +2 damage/+2 attack instead/+2 HP per level. Change Greater Rage to +3 damage/+3 attack instead/+3 HP per level. Change Mighty Rage to +4 damage/+4 attack instead/+4 HP per level. No ETA on changes and the description changes seen IG would have to wait until the next time we do a hak update (sometime in June most likely). Gimme a week to test the changes and ensure it doesn't open up any unforeseen exploits. I disagree with changing the con bonus: the duration of barbarian rage is based on your CON score. If you change it to just bonus HP, you will lower the duration of an already short effect. I say keep +con, but change +Str
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Post by kalbaern on Apr 16, 2015 18:25:28 GMT -5
Well, after looking over the scripts for these feats, its doable. Since the CON bonus granted also suffers from stacking limits I should change that to raw bonus HP per barabarian level as well. Change Barbarian Rage to +2 damage/+2 attack instead/+2 HP per level. Change Greater Rage to +3 damage/+3 attack instead/+3 HP per level. Change Mighty Rage to +4 damage/+4 attack instead/+4 HP per level. No ETA on changes and the description changes seen IG would have to wait until the next time we do a hak update (sometime in June most likely). Gimme a week to test the changes and ensure it doesn't open up any unforeseen exploits. I disagree with changing the con bonus: the duration of barbarian rage is based on your CON score. If you change it to just bonus HP, you will lower the duration of an already short effect. I say keep +con, but change +Str Duration will equal your CON bonus plus the increases above and will if you had previously been maxing out actually prolong the rage effect further.
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Post by kalbaern on Apr 16, 2015 18:34:49 GMT -5
Yeah, like making sure the +2 attack bonus doesn't allow the Barb to bypass DR. The scripted attack bonus only adds to hit chance, but doesn't overcome DR. It used to in the past, but was fixed in 1.67 or 1.68, I can't recall.
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Post by Avelent on Apr 19, 2015 12:12:44 GMT -5
Hey guys!
Wow, Me and Endoftheline were talking about this issue the other day because my barbarian Heather never gets to use her rage anymore, which is no fun.., Because sense I'm usually already at the +12 limit for str and sometimes even con my barbarian rage is usually just a -2 to ac >_<.
I agree with the changes mentioned and think they would be super helpful! I also have a few comments.
If it was +2 damage and attack instead of +4 str this is not correct in all cases either. I would gladly take this change over no change but ideally it should be +2 damage if using a one hander, +2 to main hand and +1 to off hand if duel wielding, and +3 if using a two hander. This is how str functions normally in these three cases. I would imagine that would be much harder to script though so I understand if that's not do able. Just a suggestion ^_^
Also I like the idea of changing con to flat HP per level so that you can still gain hp even if already at the max of +12 con. I take it that by hp you mean temp hit points? Because temporarily gaining life that is just gona disappear is silly in a setting where you fight hordes of monsters back to back with little pause between encounters. That might work in PnP to get a con bonus that gives you life that is gone after the rage but in PnP a normal event is only several encountiers and there is time to catch your breath and heal between them. This is clearly just my opinion on the matter anyways hee hee. But I would much rather have temporary hit points that last for the duration of the rage. Makes me feel like a true barbarian that shrugs of damage rather than a barbarian that dies when the rage is over because they lost the temporary boost to hp from false con.
So to put it simply my suggestion on the con is in place of +4 con change it to(+2 fort and +2 temp hit points per level of barb for the duration of the rage)
An additional point that I would make about the temp hit points is that it would be much welcomed seeing how my barbarian doesn't even benefit from my barbarian class passive DR because it does not stack with the DR on my armor >_< Rather unfortunate.
Great ideas guys! I would love to see some barb changes. Thanks for being open to this kinda stuff Kal ^_^
Thanks, -Avelent
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Post by kalbaern on Apr 19, 2015 12:41:23 GMT -5
Hey guys! Wow, Me and Endoftheline were talking about this issue the other day because my barbarian Heather never gets to use her rage anymore, which is no fun.., Because sense I'm usually already at the +12 limit for str and sometimes even con my barbarian rage is usually just a -2 to ac >_<. I agree with the changes mentioned and think they would be super helpful! I also have a few comments. If it was +2 damage and attack instead of +4 str this is not correct in all cases either. I would gladly take this change over no change but ideally it should be +2 damage if using a one hander, +2 to main hand and +1 to off hand if duel wielding, and +3 if using a two hander. This is how str functions normally in these three cases. I would imagine that would be much harder to script though so I understand if that's not do able. Just a suggestion ^_^ Also I like the idea of changing con to flat HP per level so that you can still gain hp even if already at the max of +12 con. I take it that by hp you mean temp hit points? Because temporarily gaining life that is just gona disappear is silly in a setting where you fight hordes of monsters back to back with little pause between encounters. That might work in PnP to get a con bonus that gives you life that is gone after the rage but in PnP a normal event is only several encountiers and there is time to catch your breath and heal between them. This is clearly just my opinion on the matter anyways hee hee. But I would much rather have temporary hit points that last for the duration of the rage. Makes me feel like a true barbarian that shrugs of damage rather than a barbarian that dies when the rage is over because they lost the temporary boost to hp from false con. So to put it simply my suggestion on the con is in place of +4 con change it to(+2 fort and +2 temp hit points per level of barb for the duration of the rage) An additional point that I would make about the temp hit points is that it would be much welcomed seeing how my barbarian doesn't even benefit from my barbarian class passive DR because it does not stack with the DR on my armor >_< Rather unfortunate. Great ideas guys! I would love to see some barb changes. Thanks for being open to this kinda stuff Kal ^_^ Thanks, -Avelent When I add the "changes" the default actions for rage will still remain unchanged. Folks will instead have an option on their crafting menus to toggle the new replacement effects on/off instead. Sort of like setting a specific summons or a shape works now. I'll be doing it this way as there could be times or conditions when the default version is desired still.
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Post by Avelent on Apr 19, 2015 13:06:53 GMT -5
That's a neat idea and that does fix it up in some situations.
I'm still trying to understand the HP gained from the "changed" version of the rage though.
Are the changes just adding HP or is it adding temp hit points, or is it basically the same thing and I just don't realize it?
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Post by kalbaern on Apr 19, 2015 13:13:16 GMT -5
That's a neat idea and that does fix it up in some situations. I'm still trying to understand the HP gained from the "changed" version of the rage though. Are the changes just adding HP or is it adding temp hit points, or is it basically the same thing and I just don't realize it? Mechanically, it'll appear the same, although since the HP boost is by default is based on your CON bonus, it merely overcomes stacking limits if CON is maxed out.
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Post by Avelent on Apr 19, 2015 13:16:26 GMT -5
OKay thanks, Makes sense now.
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