Post by kalbaern on Sept 20, 2019 13:02:33 GMT -5
I'm often asked, if/when we'll convert the module here. The short answer is "Yes", we will convert over. Just not in the coming year. The longer answer will be seen below.
Sure, most servers have already swapped over to EE. Good for them. They did this to seize the chance for new players using the online list that is available for EE. This is only a short term gain and likely short sighted on their parts, especially the large PWs.
Current issues regarding NWN:EE
1 - Not currently able to host/play under 64 bit: For most folks to fully gain the advantages of playing EE, the 64 bit version needs finished and to be stable first. Then all of the cool graphics and other things will be fully realized. Until then, EE is a nerfed version of what Beamdog has promised. This will also mean that a new server might be required. This is less of an issue as the PC I build and personally play on is suitable as is my laptop. It also will give me an excuse to upgrade one or both of them. *winks*
2 - Backwards compatibility: Although, other than a few issues with some old creature appearances and some glitches with certain types of transitions, EE works well when you convert an older module/PW. That however may very well soon change. Beamdog is still developing EE and plans many changes to the game that will likely break most and possibly all of a server's vaulted characters. New domains, spells, feats, classes and other things are in the works that would make existing characters invalid or the servers would need to turn off their restrictions and open themselves up to folks hacking their PCs to make them uber and grief others. Something very common back in the day.
3 - EE version control: Currently, if you purchase EE, you have access to all updates to it. What is unknown is whether or not Beamdog plans to release modules that contain new items, creatures, spells, etc... that require you to purchase them in order to use them like Bioware did with the original campaigns. Players had to buy each expansion that a server had upgraded to. Beamdog hasn't commented on this aspect yet, but it makes sense and would increase their revenue streams if/when they do it.
Currently, the goal is to convert over around the beginning of 2021, roughly 15+ months from now. So not soon, but not that far off either.
What will change when we convert to NWN:EE
1 - Complete new Hak Set: Because some older placeable and creature models (we only use a couple that I am aware of, not a big deal) are incompatible with EE and further, a ton of things found in the CEP and other haks we've merged go grossly unused or under used, it makes sense to trim the dross out and make room for all of the new things folks are creating and intending just for EE.
You can follow this link to the NWVault for large viewing and more details: neverwintervault.org/project/nwnee/hakpak/tileset/merricksdads-deep-caverns-nw1-and-ee
Additionally, many of the upgrades we use via haks here are slated as enhancements (a few already added) to NWN:EE and will be redundant. So in the end our haks will shrink considerably.
2 - "Fix" Elves and sort Clothing/Armor appearances better: Something that has always been a pet peeve is that even though NWN is based on the Forgotten Realms, Bioware made elves short. They aren't. In "FR" elves are the same height as humans, just with a lither build and slightly longer slender fingers and hands. This also meant that many elven weapons required an extra feat to use without penalties by non elves (not unlike a non-dwarf using a dwarven axe). Making "proper" elven appearances requires new models for them. A minor modelling task. It also will require that all of their clothing and armor be remade to scale with them. This seems on the surface to be an inordinate task, but isn't as bad as it seems. It lines up with another goal I have to fill in all of the missing gaps in appearance for clothing and armor that exist between males and females and often times by race. My goal is to be able to create any appearance, whether in game or the toolset and know it will look fine regardless of who is wearing it. In the long run, this will mean we can also have a lot more diversity and smaller "palettes" full of outfits just for NPCs. IE: With all of the current outfit variants in use here, we could add a couple hundred new areas to explore or twice that many new NPCs/creatures. These haks are already under development. Due to the nature of modeling or remodeling in many cases and how long the programs tie up a computer as "things" are assembled properly, models are being made and then cleaned and compiled during my down times. Most nights I run the modeling stuff as I sleep or again in the morning before I head out.
3 - Fill in missing higher resolution textures: A lot of the older appearances, load screens, skyboxes and other things lack Hi Res textures still. These need to be added before older modules get converted so EE players can actually see improvements. This is linked to 1 and 2 above already.
4 - Better if not true Subrace options: EE development is strongly considering adding true subraces along with expanded classes. If they do ... Whoo Hoo! If not, I have a new version I am testing that will meet over 90% of my own requirements. Current systems for adding subraces like High Elves, Drow, Wood Elves, Lightfoot or Ghostwise Halflings and others all use a "skin" on the PC to add bonuses and penalties. They also lack the actual source feats at times. Lastly, their bonuses subtract from item and spell limits. (EX: Using current methods, the bonus to your strength (if any) would count towards the +12 cap hardcoded in NWN. So if your bonus was +2 already, you could only gain another +10 using equipped items or buffing with spells.) In either case, ability stacking limits and actual correct racial preferred class restrictions will be covered.
And before you get way too excited ... "No" ... you won't be able to play a Drow!
At least not soon (if ever) That's a discussion for leagues down the road yet. Drow, Duergar, Deep gnomes and even Goblins, Orcs and Gnolls could technically be playable races one day, but not anytime soon. As NPCs however, it will make our current diversity leap tremendously. I'd be able to "dress" more NPCs, further customizing their IG appearances, especially their armors. Image facing a group of orcs that are bare chested, maybe a few wering hide armor, then sddenly a larger orc wearing chainmail appears to face you! Then everyone shifts to take down what is obviously "the biggest threat" and probably their chief.
To properly implement these other races as playable in our module, we'd need actual starting areas unique for them. Even the "Zhents" in Orlbar aren't going to allow a drow or duergar or worse to merely wander through the town, let alone "Mord". If it were to ever happen, I'd first split the module into two or more servers to better handle the load. And FYI ... even if the other elves grow taller, drow will retain the current shorter statures as shown in the FRCS (Forgotten Realms Campaign Source).
From left to right you see the following in this scene from the FRCS: A Male Human, A Female Sun Elf, A Male Wood Elf, A Male Moon Elf, A Male Drow (See! He's still short) and A Female Wild Elf.
Additionally, "Scaling" is being tweaked in NWN:EE. It has a few glitches right now, but when stable will allow folks to adjust their body dimensions to be shorter or taller and thinner or wider as desired. So, to assuage "Jaynah's" fears that "But, Trenia won't be Trenia then!" ... Yes .. she will. Just after a trip to the Customizing Room is all.
5 - Your old/current PCs will not be lost: Lots depends on what else Beamdog adds to NWN (Feats and Classes mainly) as too how easily they can be transferred over to the new module. At a minimum, most folk will have to reset their custom appearances for the character as well as most of their equipped items. Worst case scenario, folks would have to recreate their PCs as new characters and then I would meet them in game and drop XP and GP on them along with new equipment and items based on what they previously had. The old/current server vault as well as a legacy version of the module will be kept to review your PCs in and facilitate restoring them under the new game. Good news though. This also opens up the chance for folks to tweak their current builds, shift from being an elf whose favored class is wizard and be a wood elf who favors ranger now and other things. Initially, there will be no cap on how many PCs you can transfer/update. Who knows, there's a chance that "Wids" will make me set a cap at 100 or less PCs per player though. The only thing you'll actually lose is the ability to teleport to areas you currently do now. Fresh doses of exploration XP will help make up for the inconvenience and give you a good excuse to re-explore and see all the new features and visual enhancements. An over all "Win" in my book.
6 - Module Areas/Maps/Stores/Dungeons/Etc...: Yup! Many (not quite all) areas will need to be remade. A few are being converted as I update them already. Others will require being remade from scratch. While it seems a daunting task, it is, but not overly so. Help will be recruited when the time grows near and you'd be surprised how fast I can whip up areas in the toolset. The areas are the easy part. Setting encounters, scripts, various scripted encounters and other things for ambiance are what take the most time. Guess what? Other than setting lighting and music, everything else is mostly Click-N-Draw or Cut-N-Paste as the scripts will not be changing as a whole. And by the way ... the aforementioned "scaling" in NWN:EE works on placeables too! this will further slim our palettes and increase diversity. I'll be able to set treasure chests to become visually smaller or large to an extent, thus using a single chest on the palette to fulfill the role and fit the setting whether its placed in a goblin's lair, orc lair or a giant's. Cool shit! (Canadian Transaltion for "chilango": Cool shit, Eh!)
7 - Support for NWNX2 or a similar replacement is still pending completion: Here, like on most NWN Diamond/1.69 Modules, we use a third party program to launch/reset and overall monitor the state of the server. That is currently lacking for EE. Without it, a DM cannot reset the server if it's needed. Your class and levels can't be hidden from others in the player list as they are now and some other things regarding detecting "hacked" characters and stuff we do to keep the asshats (griefers) out of SFS. We'd also lose the ability to restart when I am physically away and it crashes for some odd reason. Not having to "run home" to relaunch it or worrying that it'll go down when I'm off on vacation for a month and leave folk without their SFS fix is a definitely a good thing and all but a requirement before we convert. The good news is that more than a few of the folks working on EE are big fans of PW play, unlike Bioware developers who were more focused on SP play. A replacement system is being worked on and tested by several of the folks involved in EE, so it's just a matter of waiting now.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Anyhow, since NWN:EE is still in active development and future releases updates are likely to break characters if not the modules themselves, we're holding off. The next twelve months will hopefully allow us to see what they can really accomplish and move on from there. In the meantime, the current module is still being tweaked and expanded almost daily.
Much will be dependent on Beamdog. As they release updates and changes, our plan to swap over to the new version and the time frame will be re-visted.
- kalbaen -
Sure, most servers have already swapped over to EE. Good for them. They did this to seize the chance for new players using the online list that is available for EE. This is only a short term gain and likely short sighted on their parts, especially the large PWs.
Current issues regarding NWN:EE
1 - Not currently able to host/play under 64 bit: For most folks to fully gain the advantages of playing EE, the 64 bit version needs finished and to be stable first. Then all of the cool graphics and other things will be fully realized. Until then, EE is a nerfed version of what Beamdog has promised. This will also mean that a new server might be required. This is less of an issue as the PC I build and personally play on is suitable as is my laptop. It also will give me an excuse to upgrade one or both of them. *winks*
2 - Backwards compatibility: Although, other than a few issues with some old creature appearances and some glitches with certain types of transitions, EE works well when you convert an older module/PW. That however may very well soon change. Beamdog is still developing EE and plans many changes to the game that will likely break most and possibly all of a server's vaulted characters. New domains, spells, feats, classes and other things are in the works that would make existing characters invalid or the servers would need to turn off their restrictions and open themselves up to folks hacking their PCs to make them uber and grief others. Something very common back in the day.
3 - EE version control: Currently, if you purchase EE, you have access to all updates to it. What is unknown is whether or not Beamdog plans to release modules that contain new items, creatures, spells, etc... that require you to purchase them in order to use them like Bioware did with the original campaigns. Players had to buy each expansion that a server had upgraded to. Beamdog hasn't commented on this aspect yet, but it makes sense and would increase their revenue streams if/when they do it.
Currently, the goal is to convert over around the beginning of 2021, roughly 15+ months from now. So not soon, but not that far off either.
What will change when we convert to NWN:EE
1 - Complete new Hak Set: Because some older placeable and creature models (we only use a couple that I am aware of, not a big deal) are incompatible with EE and further, a ton of things found in the CEP and other haks we've merged go grossly unused or under used, it makes sense to trim the dross out and make room for all of the new things folks are creating and intending just for EE.
You can follow this link to the NWVault for large viewing and more details: neverwintervault.org/project/nwnee/hakpak/tileset/merricksdads-deep-caverns-nw1-and-ee
Additionally, many of the upgrades we use via haks here are slated as enhancements (a few already added) to NWN:EE and will be redundant. So in the end our haks will shrink considerably.
2 - "Fix" Elves and sort Clothing/Armor appearances better: Something that has always been a pet peeve is that even though NWN is based on the Forgotten Realms, Bioware made elves short. They aren't. In "FR" elves are the same height as humans, just with a lither build and slightly longer slender fingers and hands. This also meant that many elven weapons required an extra feat to use without penalties by non elves (not unlike a non-dwarf using a dwarven axe). Making "proper" elven appearances requires new models for them. A minor modelling task. It also will require that all of their clothing and armor be remade to scale with them. This seems on the surface to be an inordinate task, but isn't as bad as it seems. It lines up with another goal I have to fill in all of the missing gaps in appearance for clothing and armor that exist between males and females and often times by race. My goal is to be able to create any appearance, whether in game or the toolset and know it will look fine regardless of who is wearing it. In the long run, this will mean we can also have a lot more diversity and smaller "palettes" full of outfits just for NPCs. IE: With all of the current outfit variants in use here, we could add a couple hundred new areas to explore or twice that many new NPCs/creatures. These haks are already under development. Due to the nature of modeling or remodeling in many cases and how long the programs tie up a computer as "things" are assembled properly, models are being made and then cleaned and compiled during my down times. Most nights I run the modeling stuff as I sleep or again in the morning before I head out.
3 - Fill in missing higher resolution textures: A lot of the older appearances, load screens, skyboxes and other things lack Hi Res textures still. These need to be added before older modules get converted so EE players can actually see improvements. This is linked to 1 and 2 above already.
4 - Better if not true Subrace options: EE development is strongly considering adding true subraces along with expanded classes. If they do ... Whoo Hoo! If not, I have a new version I am testing that will meet over 90% of my own requirements. Current systems for adding subraces like High Elves, Drow, Wood Elves, Lightfoot or Ghostwise Halflings and others all use a "skin" on the PC to add bonuses and penalties. They also lack the actual source feats at times. Lastly, their bonuses subtract from item and spell limits. (EX: Using current methods, the bonus to your strength (if any) would count towards the +12 cap hardcoded in NWN. So if your bonus was +2 already, you could only gain another +10 using equipped items or buffing with spells.) In either case, ability stacking limits and actual correct racial preferred class restrictions will be covered.
And before you get way too excited ... "No" ... you won't be able to play a Drow!
At least not soon (if ever) That's a discussion for leagues down the road yet. Drow, Duergar, Deep gnomes and even Goblins, Orcs and Gnolls could technically be playable races one day, but not anytime soon. As NPCs however, it will make our current diversity leap tremendously. I'd be able to "dress" more NPCs, further customizing their IG appearances, especially their armors. Image facing a group of orcs that are bare chested, maybe a few wering hide armor, then sddenly a larger orc wearing chainmail appears to face you! Then everyone shifts to take down what is obviously "the biggest threat" and probably their chief. To properly implement these other races as playable in our module, we'd need actual starting areas unique for them. Even the "Zhents" in Orlbar aren't going to allow a drow or duergar or worse to merely wander through the town, let alone "Mord". If it were to ever happen, I'd first split the module into two or more servers to better handle the load. And FYI ... even if the other elves grow taller, drow will retain the current shorter statures as shown in the FRCS (Forgotten Realms Campaign Source).
From left to right you see the following in this scene from the FRCS: A Male Human, A Female Sun Elf, A Male Wood Elf, A Male Moon Elf, A Male Drow (See! He's still short
) and A Female Wild Elf.Additionally, "Scaling" is being tweaked in NWN:EE. It has a few glitches right now, but when stable will allow folks to adjust their body dimensions to be shorter or taller and thinner or wider as desired. So, to assuage "Jaynah's" fears that "But, Trenia won't be Trenia then!" ... Yes .. she will. Just after a trip to the Customizing Room is all.
5 - Your old/current PCs will not be lost: Lots depends on what else Beamdog adds to NWN (Feats and Classes mainly) as too how easily they can be transferred over to the new module. At a minimum, most folk will have to reset their custom appearances for the character as well as most of their equipped items. Worst case scenario, folks would have to recreate their PCs as new characters and then I would meet them in game and drop XP and GP on them along with new equipment and items based on what they previously had. The old/current server vault as well as a legacy version of the module will be kept to review your PCs in and facilitate restoring them under the new game. Good news though. This also opens up the chance for folks to tweak their current builds, shift from being an elf whose favored class is wizard and be a wood elf who favors ranger now and other things. Initially, there will be no cap on how many PCs you can transfer/update. Who knows, there's a chance that "Wids" will make me set a cap at 100 or less PCs per player though.
The only thing you'll actually lose is the ability to teleport to areas you currently do now. Fresh doses of exploration XP will help make up for the inconvenience and give you a good excuse to re-explore and see all the new features and visual enhancements. An over all "Win" in my book.6 - Module Areas/Maps/Stores/Dungeons/Etc...: Yup! Many (not quite all) areas will need to be remade. A few are being converted as I update them already. Others will require being remade from scratch. While it seems a daunting task, it is, but not overly so. Help will be recruited when the time grows near and you'd be surprised how fast I can whip up areas in the toolset. The areas are the easy part. Setting encounters, scripts, various scripted encounters and other things for ambiance are what take the most time. Guess what? Other than setting lighting and music, everything else is mostly Click-N-Draw or Cut-N-Paste as the scripts will not be changing as a whole. And by the way ... the aforementioned "scaling" in NWN:EE works on placeables too! this will further slim our palettes and increase diversity. I'll be able to set treasure chests to become visually smaller or large to an extent, thus using a single chest on the palette to fulfill the role and fit the setting whether its placed in a goblin's lair, orc lair or a giant's. Cool shit! (Canadian Transaltion for "chilango": Cool shit, Eh!)
7 - Support for NWNX2 or a similar replacement is still pending completion: Here, like on most NWN Diamond/1.69 Modules, we use a third party program to launch/reset and overall monitor the state of the server. That is currently lacking for EE. Without it, a DM cannot reset the server if it's needed. Your class and levels can't be hidden from others in the player list as they are now and some other things regarding detecting "hacked" characters and stuff we do to keep the asshats (griefers) out of SFS. We'd also lose the ability to restart when I am physically away and it crashes for some odd reason. Not having to "run home" to relaunch it or worrying that it'll go down when I'm off on vacation for a month and leave folk without their SFS fix is a definitely a good thing and all but a requirement before we convert. The good news is that more than a few of the folks working on EE are big fans of PW play, unlike Bioware developers who were more focused on SP play. A replacement system is being worked on and tested by several of the folks involved in EE, so it's just a matter of waiting now.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Anyhow, since NWN:EE is still in active development and future releases updates are likely to break characters if not the modules themselves, we're holding off. The next twelve months will hopefully allow us to see what they can really accomplish and move on from there. In the meantime, the current module is still being tweaked and expanded almost daily.
Much will be dependent on Beamdog. As they release updates and changes, our plan to swap over to the new version and the time frame will be re-visted.
- kalbaen -
