request for clarification

[noric]

Not trying ot be anal. I just want ot know if there is any difference in approach.

Taken from the PvP and Pickpocketing Rules, updated Oct. 21, 2010:

4) If due to PvP you die and end up respawning, you'll awake having no memories of the "whys" of your demise. You cannot respawn and head out for "revenge" after a PvP encounter. Barring living witnesses to the events or clear cut proof in another form, you'll have no IC reason to seek out the one that slew you.Edit: If you are unsure as to how long you don't remember events about your death, and good rule is that your pc has forgotten about the last 30 mins or so leading up to the death.

Two questions really.

1) Is there a difference between respawning and being rezzed as far as memory goes?

2) If you are rezzed, and members of your party tell you that they believe so-and-so was the one who killed you, would your character be justified in believing what they tell him and following through based on that information?

[DM Arsescratcher]

Oct 22, 2010 8:40:43 GMT -5 noric said:

Two questions really.

1) Is there a difference between respawning and being rezzed as far as memory goes?

2) If you are rezzed, and members of your party tell you that they believe so-and-so was the one who killed you, would your character be justified in believing what they tell him and following through based on that information?

1) It depends who raises you and whether it is done OOCly or not. If you are raised whilst the fight is going on, then I would RP it as having a hazy recollection of what happened. If you are raised OOCly by your killer after the fight then usually you would follow the same rules as respawning.

2) If you party members raise you after you've been killed then the likelihood is that your assailant has been slain. It is unlikely that your party would be attacked, you killed, then then killer would escape. If this does prove to be the case, then I would again recommend the fuzzy memory of something happening. Whether or not you believe your party or not depends on your relationship with them, how much your PC trusts people in general and other RP dynamics. As long as it's done in character then it's all good.

RP after PvP is always tricky though as often the attacker wears a disguise and it's a lot easier for players to read the floaty name about the attackers head than it is to take in details of what the PC looks like, and what they are emoting. Many seasoned players have fallen into this trap.

[noric]

Not to belabor, simply for clarification. There was a minor dispute between my character and another party member. Later on, while leaving the area, the party member in question dropped out of the party and switched me to hostile.

A few minutes later, while the rest of us were in the middle of a fight, he appeared out fo nowhere and backstabbed me, scoring an instant kill. He then disappeared.

My character's corpse laid there while the fight continued to its conclusion. After the fight, my character was rezzed by another member of the party and more than one member suggested that the missing member was probably responsible for the ambush backstab.

From your explanation, it sounds as if my character would retain at least a fuzzy recollection of the attack? It also sounds as if he would be justified in considering the other player an enemy in future encounters? Just wanting to make certain here. I absolutely want to avoid any chance of rule breaking.

[DM Arsescratcher]

Yes, you might recall fighting and then suddenly being stabbed in the back.

If your party members suggested that the person who left your party was the culprit, then you would certainly be justified in treating that person with caution next time you met.

I wouldn't necessarily go as far as considering them an enemy, and certainly not toggling them hostile on sight, as we don't want to create a cycle of PvP, but by all means treat them with suspicion!

Also, I don't know the full story but just toggling someone hostile and attacking when they are mid fight is bad form. We are a full PvP server, but we expect the PvP to have solid motivation behind it.

[Possibly Ten]

I have to chime in here. I was on as a DM and witnessed it, for the most part. The party was not watching the pc that was slain. They were, in fact, totally around the corner out of sight.

The pc that attacked, was not seen by the other party members when the act happened.

There would be no memory of what happened.

Even though the pc was raised by another party member, there would still be no memory of it happening.

On another note, the other pcs telling you who they figure killed you, was the type of rp that is encouraged. It would be pretty obvious as to who it was, however, in those ruins, one can only guess at what lies behind the corner you go around that kills you.

There can be speculation, and thoughts on it, but immediate retaliation is strongly discouraged. Take the time, plan, find a way to find out for sure, or even question your supposed attacker once you have enough evidence, for your character that is, to make a case.

It can result in some nice rp. You lost no gold, no xp, just a tiny bit of pride, and perhaps a greater respect/dislike for that other pc.

These types of things are what make a game world rich. We don't want to all get along. We want to have some strife among the pcs.

I have the logs in my possession as well. From what I have read, and it is as it should have been for PvP to be legit here.

I know PvP stinks, but just roll with this one if you would. Next time, perhaps you have the upper hand, and a bit more insight into your traveling companions.

[noric]

*sighs*

This is precisely the situation that I was trying to escape from.

DM Gutbomb wrote:

There would be no memory of what happened.

Even though the pc was raised by another party member, there would still be no memory of it happening.

And yet, in the post just above it, DM Arsescratcher wrote:

Yes, you might recall fighting and then suddenly being stabbed in the back.

And also, prior:

It is unlikely that your party would be attacked, you killed, then then killer would escape. If this does prove to be the case, then I would again recommend the fuzzy memory of something happening.

Look. I will obey the rules either way. It's not my server. I just don't want to get caught in a cleft stick here. It's happened to me before on other servers where I got conflicting directions. In a case like that the player always loses because, obviously, the DMs are always right by definition. Even when the DMs are giving two different answers.

Please, somebody, give me a decision ex cathedra on this so I know one way or the other?

To DM Gutbomb:

I have no problem with PvP in principle. I have no intention of making an OOC issue of it, although I disagree with your assessment. That particular situation was unique and will never be repeated, so it's a non-issue. I do agree that PvP, properly done with some *respect* shown on both sides can be an enriching RP experience.

As I said, I just want to know what the rules are. Carved in stone please?

[Admin Group]

All parties involved please PM what they witnessed.

[noric]

I respectfully beg to decline. As the player whose character got killed, I state for the record that I have no desire to file a complaint of any kind. I merely want to get a solid, irrevocable commandment stating the proper way to RP a rez during an IC/IG situation. I understand that a respawn means that there is no memory of events for about half an hour before the kill. Ditto for an OOC rez. i simply want to know what the official, unambiguous, everybody on the same page law of the server is regarding an IC rez.

I am not making any kind of official complaint. Any conflict resulting from this (I do not anticipate or intend any) will be handled IG and IC. Please let this drop? All I want is a clear and unambiguous ruling.

[Possibly Ten]

Oct 22, 2010 20:58:43 GMT -5 noric said:

I respectfully beg to decline. As the player whose character got killed, I state for the record that I have no desire to file a complaint of any kind. I merely want to get a solid, irrevocable commandment stating the proper way to RP a rez during an IC/IG situation. I understand that a respawn means that there is no memory of events for about half an hour before the kill. Ditto for an OOC rez. i simply want to know what the official, unambiguous, everybody on the same page law of the server is regarding an IC rez.

I am not making any kind of official complaint. Any conflict resulting from this (I do not anticipate or intend any) will be handled IG and IC. Please let this drop? All I want is a clear and unambiguous ruling.

Fine, even if it's an IC rez, the character has -no- memory of the act that befell him/her.

That is as clear as it can be said.

Now, if the player that killed your pc tells you in a tell that they would know it was them that did it, then by all means your pc can remember. Otherwise, no memory of what happened.

*official stamp of ruling made*

It's as clear as it will get, now and in the future this way. It will avoid all other PvP issues in the future as well. You just don't remember. It's always been that way. Arsey, while trying to help, wasn't there. His response was a good one, but not an official ruling. The rules clearly state that you will have no memory of what transpired.

*edited for the paragraph*

[DM Arsescratcher]

Oct 22, 2010 21:16:07 GMT -5 Possibly Ten said:

Fine, even if it's an IC rez, the character has -no- memory of the act that befell him/her.

That is as clear as it can be said.

Now, if the player that killed your pc tells you in a tell that they would know it was them that did it, then by all means your pc can remember. Otherwise, no memory of what happened.

*official stamp of ruling made*

Sounds like a good ruling to me, I will update the official thread on this matter, thanks Noric for asking for clarification.

As for DMs disagreeing over a point, well one of us was there, and the other was giving general advice about a situation he had no direct knowledge of, pretty easy to work out the correct answer in that scenario, heh.